Player Trios -- which players play well together?
We've been compiling stats for years now looking at how teams have performed with specific players on the court: individual player plus/minus and on court versus off court, five man units, and yes, even player pairs.
Inevitably people ask about the remaining combinations -- player Trios (also known as Triads or the more problematic "threesomes") and even the Quads/Quartets.
Given the notion in some quarters that an NBA offense can be a three man game in some circumstances, the player trios seem to be an interesting area of study. The one difficulty is that the permutations become so large that it's easy to find 500+ different trios on a team which makes for a tough display issue (we already get enough flak about the player pair tables being hard to read...)
So for this initial look we'll just size up the leading trio and worst trio per team in net +/- and our NBA friends can request the full data if they want to see it. Please note that these numbers are in raw form and have not been adjusted for the other players in the five-man unit, nor for the opposing 5-man unit on the floor at the same time.
Player Trio team leaders in 2007-08 (as of 01/31, top trio per team in net plus/minus)
Team |
Player1 |
Player2 |
Player3 |
Min |
+/- |
Off/g |
Def/g |
Net48 |
Comments |
ATL |
A.Johnson |
J.Johnson |
Horford |
666 |
+67 |
95 |
90 |
+5 |
Horford and JJ a view of the future |
BOS |
R.Allen |
Pierce |
Garnett |
1069 |
+325 |
101 |
87 |
+15 |
Yup, the Big Three rule |
CHA |
Felton |
Carroll |
Richardson |
359 |
+45 |
103 |
97 |
+6 |
The "shooters" |
CHI |
Duhon |
Deng |
Thomas |
86 |
+54 |
110 |
79 |
+30 |
Bulls should give this trio more time |
CLE |
Gibson |
James |
Ilgauskas |
615 |
+118 |
104 |
95 |
+9 |
LeBron plus PG plus C |
DAL |
Harris |
Jo.Howard |
Nowitzki |
777 |
+239 |
108 |
93 |
+15 |
Why trade Devin?? |
DEN |
Iverson |
Najera |
Camby |
453 |
+148 |
111 |
95 |
+16 |
Najera a key Denver player |
DET |
Billups |
Prince |
Wallace |
988 |
+238 |
100 |
88 |
+12 |
Powerhouse Pistons |
GSW |
Ellis |
Jackson |
Biedrins |
735 |
+188 |
112 |
99 |
+12 |
Young guys producing |
HOU |
Alston |
Battier |
Yao |
1041 |
+125 |
98 |
92 |
+6 |
No T-Mac? Huh... |
IND |
Rush |
Dunleavy |
Murphy |
153 |
+66 |
119 |
98 |
+21 |
The "discards" |
LAC |
Maggette |
Thomas |
Kaman |
615 |
+65 |
97 |
92 |
+5 |
E.B. come back soon! |
LAL |
Bryant |
Odom |
Bynum |
677 |
+204 |
112 |
98 |
+14 |
Your Three Stars |
MEM |
Miller |
Warrick |
Gasol |
145 |
+52 |
114 |
97 |
+17 |
Hakim barely playing, go figure |
MIA |
Quinn |
Davis |
O'Neal |
128 |
+29 |
97 |
87 |
+11 |
Sad days in Miami |
MIL |
Bell |
Redd |
Mason |
47 |
+42 |
130 |
87 |
+43 |
Nice numbers, but only 43 Minutes |
MIN |
McCants |
Gomes |
Richard |
59 |
+46 |
106 |
69 |
+38 |
No Jefferson, garbage time? |
NJN |
Carter |
Jefferson |
Magloire |
91 |
+43 |
105 |
82 |
+23 |
No Kidd |
NOH |
Paul |
Stojakovic |
Chandler |
988 |
+240 |
105 |
93 |
+12 |
A true talent trio |
NYK |
Robinson |
Crawford |
Lee |
486 |
+42 |
101 |
97 |
+4 |
The scrappy do's |
ORL |
Nelson |
Lewis |
Howard |
933 |
+136 |
106 |
99 |
+7 |
Another core trio |
PHI |
Green |
Korver |
Dalembert |
118 |
+57 |
106 |
83 |
+23 |
Um, Korver no longer with the team |
PHO |
Nash |
Marion |
Stoudemire |
989 |
+282 |
117 |
104 |
+14 |
Could have guessed |
POR |
Roy |
Jones |
Outlaw |
340 |
+79 |
106 |
95 |
+11 |
Jones a suprise |
SAC |
Udrih |
Martin |
Miller |
350 |
+80 |
108 |
97 |
+11 |
Assume Artest will be in by end |
SAS |
Parker |
Ginobili |
Duncan |
481 |
+135 |
106 |
93 |
+13 |
Carrying on... |
SEA |
Szczerbiak |
Wilcox |
Thomas |
109 |
+57 |
115 |
90 |
+25 |
Durant-Green hurting on a +/- basis |
TOR |
Calderon |
Parker |
Bosh |
802 |
+111 |
100 |
94 |
+7 |
Raptors discovered genius |
UTA |
Williams |
Kirilenko |
Boozer |
1080 |
+153 |
111 |
104 |
+7 |
AK-47 not forgotten this season |
WAS |
Stevenson |
Butler |
Jamison |
1063 |
+150 |
102 |
95 |
+7 |
Amazing job sans Gilbert |
Let's look next at the twenty five leading trios in total plus/minus so far:
League wide top trios (net plus/minus)
Team |
Player1 |
Player2 |
Player3 |
Min |
+/- |
Off/g |
Def/g |
Net48 |
BOS |
R.Allen |
Pierce |
Garnett |
1069 |
+325 |
101 |
87 |
+15 |
BOS |
Rondo |
Pierce |
Garnett |
946 |
+287 |
99 |
85 |
+15 |
PHO |
Nash |
Marion |
Stoudemire |
989 |
+282 |
117 |
104 |
+14 |
PHO |
Nash |
Bell |
Marion |
883 |
+277 |
116 |
101 |
+15 |
PHO |
Nash |
Bell |
Stoudemire |
761 |
+273 |
117 |
100 |
+17 |
BOS |
Pierce |
Garnett |
Perkins |
857 |
+269 |
99 |
84 |
+15 |
BOS |
Rondo |
R.Allen |
Pierce |
917 |
+267 |
100 |
86 |
+14 |
BOS |
Rondo |
Pierce |
Perkins |
780 |
+256 |
100 |
84 |
+16 |
BOS |
Rondo |
R.Allen |
Garnett |
880 |
+252 |
99 |
85 |
+14 |
BOS |
Rondo |
Garnett |
Perkins |
744 |
+244 |
99 |
83 |
+16 |
PHO |
Nash |
Hill |
Marion |
774 |
+242 |
119 |
104 |
+15 |
BOS |
R.Allen |
Garnett |
Perkins |
794 |
+240 |
99 |
84 |
+15 |
NOH |
Paul |
Stojakovic |
Chandler |
988 |
+240 |
105 |
93 |
+12 |
DAL |
Harris |
Jo.Howard |
Nowitzki |
777 |
+239 |
108 |
93 |
+15 |
DET |
Billups |
Prince |
Wallace |
988 |
+238 |
100 |
88 |
+12 |
PHO |
Bell |
Marion |
Stoudemire |
700 |
+237 |
116 |
100 |
+16 |
BOS |
R.Allen |
Pierce |
Perkins |
818 |
+225 |
99 |
86 |
+13 |
NOH |
Paul |
West |
Chandler |
1172 |
+220 |
101 |
92 |
+9 |
DET |
Billups |
Prince |
McDyess |
959 |
+218 |
98 |
87 |
+11 |
DET |
Billups |
Hamilton |
McDyess |
927 |
+214 |
99 |
88 |
+11 |
NOH |
Stojakovic |
West |
Chandler |
940 |
+212 |
103 |
92 |
+11 |
BOS |
Rondo |
R.Allen |
Perkins |
691 |
+210 |
99 |
85 |
+15 |
NOH |
Paul |
Stojakovic |
West |
1050 |
+210 |
104 |
94 |
+10 |
NOH |
Peterson |
West |
Chandler |
827 |
+205 |
103 |
91 |
+12 |
LAL |
Bryant |
Odom |
Bynum |
677 |
+204 |
112 |
98 |
+14 |
So of the top twenty-five trios, Boston has ten of the best, and the Suns have five..
Since we've seen the best from each team, we might as well delve into the unsavory business of looking at the least successful in overall plus/minus:
Worst Player Trio by team (net plus/minus)
Team |
Player1 |
Player2 |
Player3 |
Min |
+/- |
Off/g |
Def/g |
Net48 |
Comments |
ATL |
Childress |
M.Williams |
Horford |
302 |
-53 |
92 |
100 |
-8 |
Somewhat surprising |
BOS |
Pierce |
Posey |
Perkins |
83 |
-47 |
80 |
107 |
-27 |
Three P's |
CHA |
McInnis |
Richardson |
Okafor |
598 |
-124 |
92 |
102 |
-10 |
McInnis not part of future plans |
CHI |
Hinrich |
Gordon |
Wallace |
672 |
-101 |
92 |
99 |
-7 |
Red Alert! |
CLE |
D.Brown |
Pavlovic |
Ilgauskas |
136 |
-61 |
80 |
102 |
-22 |
Scrubs |
DAL |
Stackhouse |
Bass |
Diop |
132 |
-49 |
90 |
107 |
-18 |
Bass+Diop = no Dirk |
DEN |
Carter |
Iverson |
Camby |
734 |
-49 |
105 |
108 |
-3 |
Not good since these guys start |
DET |
Murray |
Hayes |
Maxiell |
147 |
-38 |
91 |
103 |
-12 |
all Bench guys |
GSW |
Ellis |
Azubuike |
Biedrins |
318 |
-54 |
102 |
110 |
-8 |
Monta+Andris part of best trio |
HOU |
James |
McGrady |
Yao |
127 |
-51 |
95 |
114 |
-19 |
James experiment didn't last long |
IND |
Granger |
Murphy |
O'Neal |
388 |
-85 |
97 |
107 |
-11 |
Not the optimal frontline |
LAC |
Knight |
Mobley |
Kaman |
458 |
-80 |
88 |
96 |
-8 |
Help! |
LAL |
Farmar |
Walton |
Odom |
119 |
-56 |
83 |
105 |
-23 |
These guys do play with Kobe |
MEM |
Miller |
Gay |
Milicic |
625 |
-151 |
94 |
106 |
-12 |
So much for Darko |
MIA |
Wade |
Davis |
Haslem |
791 |
-182 |
96 |
107 |
-11 |
Ugly |
MIL |
Redd |
Yi |
Bogut |
885 |
-125 |
94 |
101 |
-7 |
Maybe not the core to build on |
MIN |
Telfair |
Gomes |
Jefferson |
744 |
-179 |
93 |
105 |
-12 |
Definitely not the core to build on... |
NJN |
Kidd |
Jefferson |
S.Williams |
609 |
-106 |
96 |
104 |
-8 |
You heard? Jason wants out |
NOH |
Pargo |
Jackson |
Butler |
197 |
-40 |
76 |
86 |
-10 |
All bench |
NYK |
Crawford |
Richardson |
Curry |
708 |
-197 |
91 |
104 |
-13 |
Thomas starting lineup |
ORL |
Arroyo |
Dooling |
Foyle |
93 |
-30 |
79 |
95 |
-16 |
All bench |
PHI |
Miller |
Iguodala |
Evans |
984 |
-108 |
89 |
95 |
-5 |
Reggie not the answer |
PHO |
Hill |
Diaw |
Skinner |
200 |
-41 |
93 |
103 |
-10 |
Amare+Marion matter |
POR |
Roy |
Webster |
Aldridge |
852 |
-87 |
90 |
95 |
-5 |
Starters...hmmm |
SAC |
Douby |
Garcia |
Thomas |
95 |
-64 |
80 |
112 |
-32 |
All bench |
SAS |
Vaughn |
Finley |
Oberto |
116 |
-39 |
86 |
103 |
-16 |
All bench |
SEA |
Watson |
Durant |
Collison |
508 |
-189 |
94 |
112 |
-18 |
Maybe not the trio for the future |
TOR |
Calderon |
Delfino |
Humphries |
224 |
-37 |
92 |
100 |
-8 |
Missing Bosh? |
UTA |
Brewer |
Harpring |
Boozer |
156 |
-33 |
92 |
102 |
-10 |
A little surprising |
WAS |
Mason |
McGuire |
Blatche |
102 |
-77 |
76 |
112 |
-36 |
All bench |
So there's some food for thought. Teams with three starter trios in this "hall of shame" might want to consider mixing things up, no?